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7/23/2020

Creation stories in the Bible (yes there's more than one) and how they compare to other religions'

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Thursday, 7/30, our Bible Study discussion topic is creation stories in the Bible (yes, there's more than one) and how they compare to other religions'.
 Join us, 7:30-8:30pm, on Zoom: https://zoom.us/j/703956236.  

Here is a visually easier way to read the two different accounts of God creating the world that occur back-to-back at the beginning of the Bible, in Genesis 1-2. (Not endorsing the writer's comments on the link above, was just an easy-to-read bible parallels version I found.)  Genesis 3 follows with the story of the serpent and fruit which in the NRSV often has the title "the first sin and its punishment." (Remember, passage titles/headings are the editor's addition.)
  • What does it mean to you that there are two different stories of creation?
  • Do you see them as one story told two different ways?
  • Does it matter?
  • What implications do you carry forth theologically from the creation story?  
    • Do the categories of "good" and "bad" get implicitly or explicitly stamped from this story - and on what?
    • What's God's relationship with and action toward creation in these stories, and implied now from these accounts?
  • In these Bible passages themselves,
    • what questions do you have?
    • what details do you wonder about?
    • what do you find comforting, or challenging?

Now, as for other religions and cultures, here's a six-minute listen (or read the transcript) of a quick NPR interview from a scholar who works on the topic: Exploring the World's Creation Myths.
This site provides a good overview of different common themes between global creation stories of different cultures/religions.  (Don't mind that it was done by a student and is outdated web design - it checks out and it was hard to find a good comparison page.)
  • How do you feel about the commonalities/differences between these, or other cultures' creation stories?
  • How does your scientific understanding of the origins of the world interact with how you understand/believe these stories (including scripture)?
  • Can something be true without being scientifically correct?  What truths are these stories trying to express? 

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7/15/2020

Does God condemn?  (And what does the Bible say about it)

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Thursday, 7/16, our Bible Study discussion topic is does God condemn? (And what does the Bible say about it?
 Join us, 7:30-8:30pm, on Zoom: https://zoom.us/j/703956236.  

This topic has been an ongoing thread through our last year or so of Bible study.  In a way back when we were reading the book of Job together, but definitely as we read the gospel of Luke, one person raised the question - does Jesus actually ever condemn someone in the gospel?  We picked that question back up at times, considered Jesus' encounters...  
So this Thursday we're making space to talk about this question directly - and broadly.  Does God condemn?  And how do we regard the scriptures that talk about this?
While our conversations at times dip into the intellectual/analytical side, I want to encourage you to be mindful as you read and as we discuss, that (like many of our other topics) if we engage this only intellectually we neglect the ways in which it has caused pain or been a very personal lived experience for some.  In other ways, it's one thing for me who has never believed or had this used against me, to talk theoretically about divine condemnation, it's another thing for someone to consider it who has believed it or borne the pain of someone's use of it.  (This is partly a note to myself - sometimes when I think - "oh, I don't believe that" it can be dismissive to people's experience who have lived with the very real ramifications of such a belief, and how hard it is to change.)
Ok - on to the topic at hand:

Let's take the second question first - what does the Bible say about condemnation?
(Scroll down if you want to just look at the questions to consider first.)
In a quick word study of the root word(s') use across scripture, I notice a couple things:
  • When we talk about condemning/condemnation in a religious sense, we tend to automatically think about final, divine condemnation - like at a "last judgment."  However much - even half(ish) - of the uses in scripture are about what I'll call "present" condemnation by which I mean/includes:
    • Human condemnation of humans in the present - basically amounts to renunciation - like "I condemn an action"
    • Human condemnation of humans that declares guilty and may inflict punishment - this includes all of the uses referring to Jesus who was "condemned to death."
    • Divine condemnation in the present.  This is one I think we largely overlook (and raises a lot of other problematic questions).  Present in both Testaments but probably more associated with the first, this is the idea that God condemns humans in the present and they suffer punishment/consequences as a result in this present life.
      • This gets into larger religious concepts like - the sins of the parent being visited on the children/descendants, which Jesus clearly teaches/works to counter as false.
  • Separately perhaps is the issue of final/eternal condemnation.  There are some challenging scriptures around this including: 
    • Jesus, Matthew 12:36-37: "I tell you, on the day of judgement you will have to give an account for every careless word you utter; for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.’"
    • Jesus in Mark 12.40:  "They devour widows’ houses and for the sake of appearance say long prayers. They will receive the greater condemnation.’"  What is the "greater" condemnation?  Are there levels?  Is this present or eternal?
    • Jesus in Mark 16:16: "The one who believes and is baptized will be saved; but the one who does not believe will be condemned."
    • Jesus - another question whether he means present or eternal: Luke 6.37:  "‘Do not judge, and you will not be judged; do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven;"
  • Scriptures that encourage not condemning or imply condemnation is not God's interest:
    • John 3.17:  ‘Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him."
    • Romans 2:1: "Therefore you have no excuse, whoever you are, when you judge others; for in passing judgement on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, are doing the very same things."  - However, keep reading this chapter and it gets more complicated about God's judgment.
    • Romans 8:1 & 31-39 "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus...  What then are we to say about these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 32He who did not withhold his own Son, but gave him up for all of us, will he not with him also give us everything else? 33Who will bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is to condemn? It is Christ Jesus, who died, yes, who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who indeed intercedes for us.* 35Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will hardship, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36As it is written, ‘For your sake we are being killed all day long; we are accounted as sheep to be slaughtered.’  37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Does God condemn?

Here are some questions to consider:

  • If the same word is used for both human and present condemnation, does that mean that God's condemnation is not necessarily always final and eternal?
  • Can God condemn a behavior but not a person?  (Careful - this gets into "love the sinner, hate the sin" territory, which is dangerous, but maybe true when rightly construed?)
  • Does God's condemnation change through the story of scripture/the people of God?  (And related:)
  • Did/has God change(d) God's mind about condemnation?
  • What does condemnation mean as a theological concept especially in the Hebrew Scriptures if the people of Israel don't necessarily believe in eternal life (then condemnation isn't eternal but temporal)?
  • Can God both condemn and forgive/redeem us?  
  • How does Luther's writing about "bearing a real and not a fictitious sin - so that one might know a real and not a fictitious grace" (paraphrased) - is there a way in which understanding divine condemnation on some level is important to experience grace/forgiveness?  
  • OR do you find these questions irrelevant because condemnation is a specifically construed eternal divine judgment?  If so - then why does scripture use the concept so loosely and in many different ways?
  • Do you believe in present divine condemnation - or natural, human consequences? (Or both - or is God's condemnation building in some consequences - again, dangerous territory!)
  • Do you believe in eternal condemnation?

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7/7/2020

Resurrection stories - Jesus' - and ours?

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Thursday, 7/9, we'll continue our Bible Study discussion topic is resurrection stories - Jesus' and ours(?)
 Join us, 7:30-8:30pm, on Zoom: https://zoom.us/j/703956236.  
What difference does it make that Jesus was resurrected?
Does the bodily resurrection of Jesus seem curious to you? 
The four different gospels have some interesting details below follows a summary of all of the resurrection stories/"accounts." 
How do these resurrection stories strike you?  What genre would you put them in, and what do you take away from them?
Which of the resurrection stories/"accounts" is most meaningful to you?  Least?  Weirdest?
Matthew
  • This is the gospel where in (27:52-53) there is a mention that "The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised.  After [Jesus'] resurrection they came out of the tombs and entered the holy city and appeared to many."  What happened to them??  There are no other mentions of these resurrections in scripture elsewhere, and no description further in this gospel.
  • Jesus does not appear at the tomb or garden, but the Mary's run into him as they leave from the tomb.  Jesus tells them to tell the others to go meet him in Galilee.
  • Counter-narrative by guards and chief priests that Jesus' body was stolen, not resurrected.
  • RJesus (Resurrected Jesus) meets the 11 on the appointed mountain in Galilee, and commissions them to go, make disciples, baptize.
Mark
  • The earliest version of Mark (which is the earliest gospel) ends with the women fleeing from the empty tomb afraid - with no appearance of RJesus and no further stories.  However, other stories were added or an alternate:
  • Jesus appears separately to Mary Magdalene (possibly alone, no mention of this being at the tomb, but it is on "Easter" morning).  She tells others, not all believe.
  • Jesus appears to "two of them" while walking in the country (possible summation of the Emmaus story), they tell others, not all believed.
  • Jesus appears to the 11 - and criticizes them for their disbelief (an interesting/unique detail) - and commissions them like in Matthew.
  • Ascension - Jesus ascends into heaven.
Luke
  • Women at the empty tomb, met by the angel, tell the guys, Peter goes to see for himself.
  • Emmaus story - Cleopas and someone else, meet Jesus on the road.  They do not recognize him at first - their eyes were kept from doing so.  They only recognize him when he breaks bread with them.  They tell the others.
  • Jesus shows up among the disciples while they are hearing the Emmaus story, Jesus "appears among them" - tells them to see his hands and feet - "that it is I myself."  He says this to point to that he is "flesh" and not "a ghost."  (No reference to wounds/scars.)  Jesus asks for something to eat - again to prove he is flesh?  He gives a bit of instruction, but not a commissioning - seems very short term, told to stay in the city.
  • Ascension - Jesus has them follow him out to Bethany, where he ascends.
John
  • Jesus appears to Mary Magdalene in the garden of the tomb - she doesn't recognize him at first, thinking he is the gardener, does when he says her name.
  • On Easter evening, Jesus "came and stood among [the disciples]" even though the doors are locked.  He shows them his hands and side (doesn't say they are wounded but feels implied?).  Jesus says "peace... receive the Holy Spirit." (Equivalent to the Pentecost giving of the HS in Luke/Acts.)
  • Thomas misses out, repeat appearance, again with the hands and side (but no actual mention of wounds).
  • (20:30) "Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book."  Ok - don't you wonder what they are?
  • Jesus appears to seven disciples (the fishermen), by the Sea of Tiberias.  They go fishing, catch nothing.  Jesus shows them where to fish, they catch a lot.  Simon Peter (who has already seen Jesus) naked (?) jumps into the sea realizing it's Jesus instructing them.  On the beach, Jesus has fish grilling (already) for breakfast, and the conversation with Simon Peter about "feed my sheep."  
  • Last vignette on the beach about the "beloved disciple" probably to reference current stories being circulated at the time of writing.  Again, reference to Jesus doing a lot of other stuff that wasn't written down - "if every one of them were written down, I suppose the world itself could not contain the books that would be written."

Bill Schilling compiled this fascinating overview of other resurrection connections and stories:
Other Biblical examples of resurrection:
  • Widow of Zarephath’s son – brought back by Elijah (1 King 17:17-24)
  • Shunamite’s woman’s son – brought back by Elisha (2 Kings 4:18-31)
  • Dead Israelite – Brought back when tossed by Moabites into Elisha’s tomb (2 Kings 13:20-21)
  • Son of widow in Nain – Jesus Luke 7:11-17
  • Daughter of Synagogue leader at Capernaum – Jesus Luke 8:49-56
  • Lazarus – Jesus John 11:1-44
  • Dead Goodly people of Jerusalem – Upon Jesus death and the earthquake Matt 27:50-54
  • Tabitha (Dorcu) of Joppa – Paul Acts 9:36-42
  • Eutychus in Troas (fell asleep during sermon) – Paul Acts 20:7-12
Jesus' Statements and Commands about Resurrection:
  • And proclaim as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay. Matthew 10:7-8
  • For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. John 5:31
Other Biblical references to resurrection:
  • And you shall know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people Ezekiel 37:13
  • And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2
  • Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy! For your dew is a dew of light, and the earth will give birth to the dead. Isaiah 26:19
Other Religions
  • Dionysus – born of Persephone and Zeus but torn apart and all parts but heart eaten by Titans at Hera’s request. Heart implanted in Zeus thigh from whence he was born again 
  • Persephone – Daughter of Demeter but taken by Hades. Zeus orders her return for one third of each year from death.
  • Osiris – part divine. Dies and reborn twice. First cast into Nile but recovered and returned to life by Isis (his wife/sister). Second time, torn to pieces and scattered across the world but gathered by Isis. Other gods resurrect him and make him god of the dead.
  • Odin – drove a spear into side and hanged himself to gain knowledge from beyond realm of the dead.
  • Ganesha (elephant headed Hindu god) Several traditions. One: Made by goddess Pavarti to guard her chamber. Shive cut off his head, but Pavarti restored him to life with the head of an elephant. 
  • Lemminkainen (Finnish) Tries to capture one of the black swans from the river of the underworld but dies in attempt. Body broken apart and scattered. His mother sews him back together and honey of the gods brings him back to life.
  • Tammuz (Sumerian) – Mortal king loved by goddess Inanna. Tammuz ends up in the kingdom of the dead but is rescued by Inanna (Ishtar) and turns him into a god. He dies and is resurrected each year.
  • Krishna – an incarnation of the god Vishnu
  • Quetzalcoatl – After four days in underworld, returns to heaven
  • Attus (Phrygian god) – A deity frenzy by Cybele. Killed himself (bled to death from self-castration) but each year resurrected by Cybele (probably as pine tree)

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